Call me crazy, but I am a dyed flaming redheaded conservative, alternative rock-loving, tattooed, Sinead O'Connor fan who knows every song from the '50's and '60's, and card carrying member of the Republican party.

Thank God for answering our prayers....

 

 

WASHINGTON — A federal judge on Friday rejected a challenge brought by atheist Michael Newdow to stop the invocation prayer at President Bush's second inauguration.

On Thursday, Newdow told U.S. District Judge John Bates that having a minister invoke God in the Jan. 20 ceremony would violate the Constitution by forcing him to accept unwanted religious beliefs.

But one day later, Bates ruled that Newdow wouldn't get far in his legal challenge and noted the absence of a "clearly established violation of the Establishment Clause."

"Moreover," the judge said in the ruling, "the balance of harms here, and particularly the public interest, does not weigh strongly in favor of the injunctive relief Newdow requests, which would require the unprecedented step of an injunction against the president."

The government had asked the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to dismiss the current lawsuit, saying the invocation had been widely accepted for more than 200 years old.

The court on Friday said it doesn't have the power to order the president not to speak at his own inauguration and the act of ordering the president not to permit an invocation and benediction — which Newdow sought — would be one and the same.

Newdow argued he would be harmed as someone attending the inauguration by being forced to listen to sectarian and specifically, Christian, prayer. The court said that harm is simply too small to warrant its involvement in the matter. Also, the court said Newdow really doesn't have the legal standing to make this request since he sued over inauguration prayers in 2001 and lost that case in two federal courts.

After his first inaugural legal attempt, Newdow became famous in 2002 for his unsuccessful attempt to remove the phrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Two ministers delivered Christian invocations at Bush's inaugural ceremony in 2001, and plans call for a minister to do the same before Bush takes the oath of office again next week.

In court this week, Newdow argued that the prayers violate the constitutional ban on the establishment of religion.

"I am going to be standing there having this imposed on me," Newdow told the court by phone on Thursday. "They will be telling me I'm an outsider at that particular moment."

Newdow also argued that taxpayer-financed inaugural ceremonies cannot be a platform for "the coercive imposition of religious dogma," adding that the president intended to "use the machinery of the state to advocate his religious beliefs."

Bates questioned both sides vigorously at Thursday's two-hour hearing, but said he doubted a court could order the president not to include a prayer when he takes the oath of office.

"Is it really in the public interest for the federal courts to step in and enjoin prayer at the president's inauguration?" Bates asked.

Bates also questioned whether the lawsuit should be thrown out because the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled last year that Newdow did not suffer "a sufficiently concrete and specific injury" when he opposed prayers from being recited at Bush's first inauguration.

Newdow said his case is different this time because he actually has a ticket to attend the inauguration. He said being there live is different than four years ago, when he planned to watch the ceremony on television.

Justice Department lawyer Edward White scoffed at that claim, saying the issues in the two cases are the same and that Newdow still has not shown how he would be injured by hearing the prayer.

In an interview published in Wednesday's Washington Times, Bush, who converted from Episcopalianism to Methodism and prays daily, tried to dispel perceptions that he is advocating his beliefs or imposing them on anyone....Click link for remainder of article.


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Jan 14, 2005
big deal
on Jan 14, 2005

 dabe

big deal

  I wonder if the decision had gone the other way if you would be so quick to dismiss the story.

Helix the II

If he's that allergic to to it, why did he get tickets to it..(other than to provoke a lawsuit)..

Amen! Personal responsibility goes a long way.

 

on Jan 14, 2005
Unfortunate example, Helix - that kind of shit gets big trial awards all the time. There is practically no legal concept of individual responsibility (as it applies to torts) any more. The manufacturer of the freezer would be found liable for not having thought of that ahead of time and built in a "thick sheet of slippery ice" detection system which would automatically dump street salt on the ice & lock the door from the inside until it melted.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jan 15, 2005
They should have dismissed the case with *predjudice*! Then we wouldn't have to listen to this stupid shit in 2008!, 2012 or anyother time.
on Jan 16, 2005

 Reply By: Daiwa

Where have you been? I miss your blogs and insightful comments.

drmiler

They should have dismissed the case with *predjudice*! Then we wouldn't have to listen to this stupid shit in 2008!, 2012 or anyother time.

If only we could be so lucky. Let's just count this blessing for now.

on Jan 16, 2005

 Reply By: Daiwa

Where have you been? I miss your blogs and insightful comments.

drmiler

They should have dismissed the case with *predjudice*! Then we wouldn't have to listen to this stupid shit in 2008!, 2012 or anyother time.

If only we could be so lucky. Let's just count this blessing for now.

on Jan 16, 2005

 Reply By: Daiwa

Where have you been? I miss your blogs and insightful comments.

drmiler

They should have dismissed the case with *predjudice*! Then we wouldn't have to listen to this stupid shit in 2008!, 2012 or anyother time.

If only we could be so lucky. Let's just count this blessing for now.

on Jan 16, 2005
Heather -

Just Call Me Bizzy!!! and a little more selective in replying, though I'm reading a lot here - getting into the OS customization stuff a little more.

I think I may have achieved a JU milestone, though - I may bave been blacklisted by Helix II (or he may have just locke the thread to everyone, can't tell).

I got that goin' for me!

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jan 16, 2005
Reply #12 By: Daiwa - 1/16/2005 9:45:50 PM
Heather -

Just Call Me Bizzy!!! and a little more selective in replying, though I'm reading a lot here - getting into the OS customization stuff a little more.

I think I may have achieved a JU milestone, though - I may bave been blacklisted by Helix II (or he may have just locke the thread to everyone, can't tell).

I got that goin' for me!

Cheers,
Daiwa


He just locked the thread. That's all.
on Jan 16, 2005
He just locked the thread. That's all.


Damn, that's deflating. I'm gonna have to work on bein' more offensive, I guess. Pardon my megalomania, heh, heh.

Well, that was still cheesy of him - he never did answer my question. Still sticking to the "content's OK" dodge.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jan 16, 2005
Damn, that's deflating. I'm gonna have to work on bein' more offensive, I guess. Pardon my megalomania, heh, heh.

Well, that was still cheesy of him - he never did answer my question. Still sticking to the "content's OK" dodge.

Cheers,
Daiwa


Yeah... I wasn't satisfied either so I started a continuation thread, located at sandy2.joeuser.com if you are interested.

Now, on to the topic at hand:

If I were to spray a thick sheet of water in an industrial freezer, then walked in, slipt, fell, and broke a leg, wouldn't personal responsibility and negligance play a key role in my lawsuit..as in, wouldn't those two things be used against me to toss my case out the door? Why should this be any different?


The negligance would be in the owner of the freezer in allowing you to do such a thing. If you owned the freezer, tough luck no money.

Now, I agree that inaugural prayer should probbably not be allowed, but its not that big of a deal, and I agree with the judge in saying it is wrong (or at least the judge questioned the legality of it), but I would not instruct the president to not allow the prayer. I would like to see the ACLU file suits against prayers in all public ordeals, including in courts, however, and I think this would take care of the problem. The problem with lots of people is they don't seem to like athiests, so they deny them rights (just like one would not like to be forced to listen to a muslim prayer).

on Jan 17, 2005

Reply #15 By: sandy2 - 1/16/2005 11:54:13 PM
The negligance would be in the owner of the freezer in allowing you to do such a thing. If you owned the freezer, tough luck no money.


Only if you could prove prior knowledge of the facts.
I'm REALLY glad that the prayer isn't up to you.
on Jan 17, 2005
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on Jan 17, 2005
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