Yes, I believe that was what I was saying. By every measurable criteria American colleges, on average are superior to the colleges in France, Britain, and Australia. This is pretty thoroughly documented if you'd care to lift your head out of your ideology and look it up. Frankly, I'm astounded that anyone would even debate this given how much has been written on this subject.

American high schools rank amongst the lowest in the world. Yet our colleges rank at the very top. This isn't exactly news to anyone that remotely follows this subject.

You know, Dabe, you obviously know nothing about me.  I grew up at the poverty line, Dabe. We're talking at the level where having enough food is an issue. By high school, my mom had turned the corner and we had a lower/middle class life style.

But going to college for me meant working 2 to 3 jobs. The only reason Stardock exists is because I ran out of money in my senior year and had to get a 4th job - one that I created myself.

 I was a conservate Republican before I went to college. I.e. when I was very poor. Perhaps my ATTITUDE about life has something to do with my success.  You left wingers always ascribe the most selfish motives to those of us on the right. As if we were somehow bleeding heart liberals until we magically cashed in on the money train and reverted, instantly, to being a Republican.  I would say that those with left leaning views of the world tend to do relatively poorly because their philosophies don't lead to success in the first place.

So don't sit there implying that I'm in favor of Republicans because I want a "tax cut".  You're the one belly aching for free money from the government that you didn't earn.  I got a Pell grant too, Dabe. I benefited from it as well. And you know what? It's still there. It hasn't been cut. And even if it were cut, people like me would have found another way.  I would have had to get more student loans probably. And incidentally, I didn't get as much as others because my mom lived responsibliy and wasn't piled up in debt. I knew kids who got much more financial aid than I did because their parents were incredibly irresposnible.

So don't assume so much about people you know nothing about.

For your amusement, here's an article that talks about what I've gone through to get to where I am: http://draginol.joeuser.com/articlecomments.asp?AID=20053&s=1

I don't expect free hand-outs from others. And I don't attack the integrity of those who don't feel they should have to give out their hard earned money to others. Personal responsibility and self-reliance can get you pretty far.

..

Dabe Writes: Well then according to your own head up your ideology stance, we should start making kids and/or their parents pay for their own grade and high school eductions. That way only those that can affford it will go, and the education will be so much better for those few. (Gee, I suppose that's the premise of vouchers. Those that can afford the difference get them, and those that can't afford them get screwed) Everyone else be damned, cuz we as a society don't care. Is that what you're suggesting? Because if that's what you really believe, you're ............ shit, I can't say it. I'll get chastised.

Translation: Dabe has no idea what vouchers are or how they are to be used. Nor does she suggest an alternative.

And I don't attack the integrity of those who don't feel they should have to give out their hard earned money to others. Personal responsibility and self-reliance can get you pretty far.

Yeah, but you attack the integrity of virtually everyone else with your arrogant, let-me-inject-some-reality sanctimony.

Because most of your proposal and rants are either based on completely false assumptions or fly in the face of history.

For your freakin' information, I also was raised in poverty. My parents didn't spend a dime on my education because they didn't have it. What got me through school was my determination, and yes, thank you government, the Pell grants and student loans, which by the way took me years and years to pay off.

You were the one who asserted that the reason I am not outraged that pell grant spending increases have been slowed down is because I wouldn't be affected.  You are the one who asserted that the reason I'm a Republican is purely because of tax cuts (being the "selfish" guy I am apparently).  I corrected you on these two things. I grew up poor and I had to pay for my own college education as well. In short, we had similar experiences going to college.

I'm so happy for you that you didn't abandon your republican roots. Nor, will I abandon my democratic roots. It's a huge philosophical divide, here. Crap, all I was doing was trying to make an argument in favor of subsidized education, and you get your britches all bunched up and inject excuse me, your reality.

You said that college education should be a right. I strongly disagree. I witnessed (And surely you did as well) lots of spoiled "dad pays everything" kids at school pissing away their time on parties and failing classes because they weren't ready to grow up.  Not everyone is cut out for college.

Moreover, *someone* has to pay for school. I think, as a society, we are much better off with individual families paying for their own kids to go to college. I do support scholastically tested / means tested scholarships and other help. But if you make it a "right" then it's just free for people to go and mess around. Sorry, no way.

Oh puleeeeeze............................ And yes, I do blame republicans. Their the ones who seem to want to cut every social program they can get thier twisted little minds around, while at the same time give tax breaks during wartime, run up the deficits into all time record highs, which our grandchildren will have to juggle with when their time to think about balancing the budgets comes around.

So you really have no idea what caused the deficit do you? The #1 cause is the recession which Bush (nor Clinton) can be blamed for.  Each year spending goes up at X percent automatically. If the economy doesn't grow at Y percent where Y is >= to X then you will have deficits.  We would have had a deficit even if there'd been no tax cut.

And no, I don't think it's the job of the FEDERAL government to provide social care to all its citizens in every little way.  You've already been proven wrong about the Pell grant issue, btw.

The Bush tax cuts paid for an extra employee here. That extra employee helped develop this website. Without the Bush tax cut, there'd be no JoeUser.com and one fewer job in the market.  Spread that across thousands of businesses and thousands of investors and you do have a significant boost to the economy.  The economy, by all reason, should have been far worse.  I think the federal reserve combined with the tax cuts averted a depression.

Holy freakin' crap, it never ends with you righties. And you call yourselves the fiscally responsible party. That's your up your you know what reality. It sure ain't my reality.

Holy freakin' crap, it never ends with you righties. And you call yourselves the fiscally responsible party. That's your up your you know what reality. It sure ain't my reality.

Your reality apparently doesn't include mathematics.  You are aware that you can calculate how much extra tax revenue would be generated if the tax cuts were repealed right? Guess what, not even remotely close to covering the deficit.  The deficit, at the macro level, is really measured by % of GDP.  It's at around 4% of GDP at present.  The reason that's imortant is because it makes it more understandable how it come into being in the first place. 

Bush definitely has been piss poor about fiscal responsibility with spending increases. But YOU are the one screaming about any sort of cut to one of your precious government hand-outs.

Apparently YOUR answer to the deficit is to just raise taxes. Which won't eliminate the deficit and it will certainly cost jobs.  Because everyone time someone suggests cutting spending, people like you will start name-calling the Republicans. 

YOU are the one complaining about fiscal responsibility AND suggesting that the government pay for college for everyone.  No doubt you also believe in universal health care and a whole bag of other goodies.  This is why Democrats aren't taken seriously by the electorate anymore.  You choose not to live in the real world.  That is what I mean by "reality check" to you.  You want balanced budgets and increased spending. And your only suggestion is to raise taxes which won't pay for this stuff anyway.

This is well and good, but it fails to recognize a reality of life for many students. Throughout my high school years, it was necessary for me to work full time, thus severely hindering study time and making it more difficult to achieve the grades necessary for academic scholarships. I am also well aware that my situation was not unique.