Refuse to Surrender Your Freedom

Published on December 18, 2004 By iamheather In Politics

It appears the ACLU is launching a protest against Bush on inauguration day. In fact, they even imply that President Bush is deliberately seeking to take away our freedoms.

Here is a recent campaign they are running on their website:

Help Us Get 100,000 People to Take the Pledge by Inauguration Day -- January 20th

Today our most fundamental freedoms are in jeopardy. Only a bold, spirited movement of people like you who refuse to surrender your freedoms can protect our civil liberties.

On January 20th, George Bush will pledge to uphold the Constitution. Our goal is to recruit 100,000 new ACLU supporters by that day to proclaim "I REFUSE TO SURRENDER MY FREEDOM" by taking this simple pledge:

"I pledge to join with over 400,000 ACLU members and supporters to help ensure that the President, his administration, and our leaders in Congress fulfill their duty to preserve, protect, and defend our Constitution.

By reaffirming my commitment to the American values of justice and liberty for all, I am enlisting in a powerful movement to defend our freedoms against assaults on our civil liberties."

Let's make it clear to those who seek to take away our freedoms that they are on the wrong side of the law... the wrong side of core American values... and the wrong side of history. Take the pledge now and stand strong in support of freedom.

Warning: Before you sign the petition, or donate money to this "worthy" cause, please read this:

A.C.L.U.'s Search for Data on Donors Stirs Privacy Fears

By STEPHANIE STROM

he American Civil Liberties Union is using sophisticated technology to collect a wide variety of information about its members and donors in a fund-raising effort that has ignited a bitter debate over its leaders' commitment to privacy rights.

Some board members say the extensive data collection makes a mockery of the organization's frequent criticism of banks, corporations and government agencies for their practice of accumulating data on people for marketing and other purposes.

Comments (Page 2)

shawnee89

on Dec 22, 2004

the ACLU has become a radical left wing activist group. If I had the power that group would either be EXTREMLY reformed. Or the group would be destroyed.

drmiler

on Dec 22, 2004

Reply #15 By: kingbee - 12/22/2004 7:59:59 AM
And although God is mentioned in the BSA creed, you are NOT required to say that section if it goes against your beliefs!

what other parts of the boyscout oath is one permitted to omit? and if that's the case, why has there been so much moaning and weeping about this issue. when did bsa issue that ruling?

As far as I know that happened a few years ago. The pissing and whining started when BSA would not let gays be scoutmasters. They're using this as a smoke screen.

drmiler

on Dec 22, 2004

And even if they did discriminate those who do not practice monotheist religions. How is that any different than those male oriented organizations that discriminate against women?

kingbee

on Dec 22, 2004

The pissing and whining started when BSA would not let gays be scoutmasters. They're using this as a smoke screen.

And even if they did discriminate those who do not practice monotheist religions. How is that any different than those male oriented organizations that discriminate against women

so your original comment about the case being bs is, as you now admit. bs? it's no different than all-male groups that discriminate against women. that's why they wouldn't be permitted support with tax-payer funds either. glad we agree on that.

drmiler

on Dec 22, 2004

Reply #19 By: kingbee - 12/22/2004 3:05:00 PM
The pissing and whining started when BSA would not let gays be scoutmasters. They're using this as a smoke screen.

And even if they did discriminate those who do not practice monotheist religions. How is that any different than those male oriented organizations that discriminate against women

so your original comment about the case being bs is, as you now admit. bs? it's no different than all-male groups that discriminate against women. that's why they wouldn't be permitted support with tax-payer funds either. glad we agree on that.

Okay show me in their charter *where* it says such a thing as stated and I'll apologize.

Link

Link

Link

Independent1

on Dec 23, 2004

"And even if they did discriminate those who do not practice monotheist religions. How is that any different than those male oriented organizations that discriminate against women"

It adds the government supporting specific religions issue. Without forcing the oath, the BSA doesn't discriminate amongst religions, so government support is hence fine since it is not support of one religion over any other.

As far as the oath issue it is not mandatory as of a ruling in 2003 but the BSA was going to appeal. The DOD case was started back in 1999 and the latest round of news was simply the first part of an ongoing out of court settlement. The DOD case is probably more of a strongarm than smokescreen.....to get the BSA to not appeal the oath issue and maybe also further the gay issue. They settled the first part so the BSA can use public lands and buildings, funding. There is still the Jamboree issue which is still in negotiation. Maybe they are using that with the gay issue?

whoman69

on Dec 23, 2004

I was not a boy scout for long but was a cub scout. The only portion of the program that deals with religion is one chapter which is the shortest chapter in the book. It asks that the scout goes to church, synagogue, temple once. There are no real penalties for skipping one chapter, you can still get to the next level with all the badges.

kingbee

on Dec 23, 2004

The only portion of the program that deals with religion is one chapter

"I, (say your name), promise
to DO MY BEST
To do my DUTY to GOD
And my Country
To HELP other people, and
To OBEY the LAW of the Pack"

"On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

drmiler

on Dec 23, 2004

Reply #23 By: kingbee - 12/23/2004 2:58:34 PM
The only portion of the program that deals with religion is one chapter

"I, (say your name), promise
to DO MY BEST
To do my DUTY to GOD
And my Country
To HELP other people, and
To OBEY the LAW of the Pack"

"On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

To boil it all down, how is this a problem? The BSA recieves limited assistance from the gov in the form of charters. They could do without it. Their money comes from charters and most of that is private org & idividuals. The thing I think is a load of BS is they're trying to stop them from using public lands for their various get togethers. How are they any different from you or I if we/they wish to use "public" lands. Are they not part of the public?

Independent1

on Dec 23, 2004

"To boil it all down, how is this a problem? The BSA recieves limited assistance from the gov in the form of charters. They could do without it."

The point is the ACLU is not ultimately trying to stop the scouts from having access to public lands. They are using the case to advance other issues. The case was mostly directed not at the use of public lands, but government employess heading troops while on government time, etc.

drmiler

on Dec 24, 2004

Reply #25 By: Independent1 - 12/23/2004 8:01:31 PM
"To boil it all down, how is this a problem? The BSA recieves limited assistance from the gov in the form of charters. They could do without it."

The point is the ACLU is not ultimately trying to stop the scouts from having access to public lands. They are using the case to advance other issues. The case was mostly directed not at the use of public lands, but government employess heading troops while on government time, etc.

Unless the employees are on night shift, I don't see how that's possible. Especially since every troop that I've been in , was a scout master for, or in my area are all held at night. That's so parents can get involved and bring their kids to meetings. And you rteally should do a little more research.

Link

Link

Link

Check these links first before you talk again.

drmiler

on Dec 24, 2004

Reply #1 By: Danny Bassette - 12/18/2004 8:51:49 PM
Keeping freedoms is good. And supporting groups that do this is also good. But the ACLU didn't state what freedoms they claim Bush will take away, seems too broad to me. I'm inclined to think it's merely an attempt to gain leverage. I read something recently where the ACLU went after the department of defense saying they couldn't interact with the boyscouts because they were a religious group. Seems to me like the ACLU is about taking away freedoms in the name of equality while claiming they are protecting those same freedoms.
In other words: Protecting freedom good, ACLU good in theory, bad in practice, that's my opinion on this subject.
Of course, we should also have the freedom to give up our freedoms, but only if we are then free to take them back

They can try all they want! Seems that SecDef Rumsfeld has other ideas. See link.

Link

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