Call me crazy, but I am a dyed flaming redheaded conservative, alternative rock-loving, tattooed, Sinead O'Connor fan who knows every song from the '50's and '60's, and card carrying member of the Republican party.

Tune to Fox News for an interesting interview with the teacher that was the subject of the article Declaration of Independence Banned! The facts ought to be interesting.

If you miss the show on now, it will be replayed later on tonight.

 

Update: Here is the transcript of the interview with the teacher.

 

STEPHEN WILLIAMS, TEACHER, STEVENS CREEK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: Yes. Last year, starting out in the beginning of the year, I hadn't changed my curriculum much at all, as I've done in the past several years, as a fifth grade teacher.

And a few weeks into the year, there was a student who said, "Why do we say 'under God' in the Pledge? And I thought, current events, past events, this is an appropriate topic to talk about.

So I said, "Let's discuss this for a few minutes." After discussing it, I didn't put too much of my opinion into it.

At the end of the day that day in school, my principal came in school and said, "What are you doing talking about God in the classroom?"

And I was kind of taken back, and I said, well, and I — I explained to her why — why it came up. And she said, "All right, it sounds reasonable."

A little bit — while later, it came up that Christopher Columbus was a Christian. This was about a 30-second discussion, where I said, "Well, a Christian means you're a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ."

The principal at the end of the day comes in and says, "What are you talking about Jesus Christ?" I explained what happened in class.

She said, "All right, sounds reasonable."

Well, the pattern developed. A parent — some parent was calling in any time there was a mention of God, Christianity, or Jesus Christ, and they just took it as a personal agenda.

HANNITY: I want to put this in perspective here. Because I have spoken to you before. Less than five percent of the materials, —you would give supplemental materials to kids — ever mentioned God. There was no discussion.

You were a history teacher. You're teaching relevant history.

WILLIAMS: One of the subjects, yes.

HANNITY: Now, you are singled out, inasmuch as no other teacher had to give whatever supplemental materials you wanted to give to your students, you first had to give it to the principal. Tell us how that then became you can't give the Declaration of Independence to them?

WILLIAMS: Right. One lesson I handed out was on the National Day of Prayer (search). We talked about it for maybe ten minutes. And the principal decided, that's it, you know, and — again this has happened a handful of times and this is one of the handful of times.

And at that point, she decided, "OK, I want to see all of your lessons that include anything about God, Jesus Christ or Christianity."

So then the now famous "the Declaration was banned." Well, my kids had read the Declaration so that's a little bit of a stretch. But what I wanted to teach was William Penn's frame of government, Samuel Adams, "The Rights of Colonists" and the first two paragraphs that exactly what you read in the beginning and the last paragraph and show how the wording came from some of the founding documents.

HANNITY: It's interesting because they keep putting out these somewhat conflicting, in my view, statements to the press, the school district — by the way, which was invited to be with us tonight, and they're not here.

But it seems like there's two strategies going on. They want to paint you as some type of a religious zealot, extremist out that is out there to proselytize students. Do you have an agenda such as that?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely not. My agenda is to give students an accurate representation of history. And whether you like it or not...

HANNITY: That's it?

WILLIAMS: ... there are some things in our historical documents and in our history that have been directly influenced by Christianity and references to God and Jesus.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Stephen, Jordan, thank you both for being here. I say this as a liberal, because I am, thank you. You may not have done anything wrong. I mean, as long as you're not proselytizing.

I've heard that other — some of the things we've read in the press are that other parents have complained that you proselytize. Are those inaccurate stories?

WILLIAMS: What they...

COLMES: What are they saying?

JORDAN LORENCE, ALLIANCE DEFENSE FUND: What they mean by proselytize is that he mentions God. And see, there are people that have this allergic reaction to any mention of God.

Now, if we're talking about "Huckleberry Finn (search )" and some parent called up and complained...

COLMES: Right.

LORENCE: ... the teacher wouldn't — the principal would not say to him, "Get rid of 'Huckleberry Finn'." They'd say, "You have the right to opt out, but this is part of our history. Mark Twain was a big writer." You should confront that.

This is the only issue where they think, wrongly, that there's this mandate to go on a search and destroy mission and eliminate all things religious.

COLMES: Right. Let me ask you about this. Now, the Alliance Defense Fund, you're — the group you work for...

LORENCE: That's right.

COLMES: ... it has claimed, says in their mission statement, "defends the right of Christians to share the Gospel in workplaces in public schools, claiming that any efforts to curb proselytizing at work and school are anti-Christian."

Is that an accurate representation?

LORENCE: By — by individuals, not by government employees. They don't have a right to proselytize. We've never taken that position or...

COLMES: But you say the right of Christians to share the gospel. You believe that that was correct?

LORENCE: Yes, I do. I mean, just like George Washington and others...

COLMES: Does that mean that your client has the right to share the Gospel?

LORENCE: He does not as a school employee, no, but he does as a regular person. He doesn't surrender his rights simply because he's a schoolteacher.

COLMES: All right. What I want to understand here, Stephen, also is, are you selectively taking documents, some of which, say, for example, John Adams diary includes the phrase, "The Christian religion is above all religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, which would then set the Christian religion as above other religions?

Is that one of the supportive documents?

WILLIAMS: First of all, look at my track record...

COLMES: Is that one of the — just answer me, is that one of the documents you offered to the school that they rejected?

WILLIAMS: One of many, yes.

COLMES: So can you understand why the school might have a problem with a document that says a Christian religion above all religions that have ever prevailed? That's not the government view.

LORENCE: But the Supreme Court has said you can even teach the Bible itself. It's the context that's important. Yes, I mean, sure, I mean, ome of the quotes are pretty intense out of the Bible, that Jesus is the only way. But you can teach them if it's a proper context.

The principal here, unfortunately, got involved and got messed up with this wrong understanding of the Constitution to think context isn't important. If I see a God word, it gets eliminated. And that's one of the reasons he contacted us, and that's why we took the case.

COLMES: Well, we wish the school could be here to give their side.

LORENCE: We...

WILLIAMS: Look at my track record. In all of the years of teaching, I have had zero complaints on this issue, zero. So all of a sudden this one year...

HANNITY: You're a great American. Best of luck to you both and appreciate all you do. Thank you for being with us.

*Lorence in the above transcript is attorney Jordan Lorence form the Alliance Defense Fund.

The link at the bottom will take you to FoxNews where you can view the above interview. "
Comments (Page 3)
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on Dec 21, 2004
Actually, my update asked that people watch the Hannity and Colmes special. Anyone who has ever watched the show knows that both liberal and conservative viewpoints are represented equally.


I cannot believe you think that liberal and conservative issues are represented equally. Sheesh......... Colmes, who professes to be liberal, is constantly smothered by Hannity. I think that he only serves as Hannity's fall guy. That show sucks rocks because Hannity is a lying sack of crap, and any self respecting liberal wouldn't be caught dead with him. Hence, Colmes is just a joke.
on Dec 21, 2004

I cannot believe you think that liberal and conservative issues are represented equally. Sheesh......... Colmes, who professes to be liberal, is constantly smothered by Hannity. I think that he only serves as Hannity's fall guy. That show sucks rocks because Hannity is a lying sack of crap, and any self respecting liberal wouldn't be caught dead with him. Hence, Colmes is just a joke.

Your hatred and animosity never cease to amaze me, dabe. I wonder how you can ever see reality through those bitter glasses.

on Dec 21, 2004
just outta curiosity, did check out the link i mentioned earlier?  reply #15.    also please see reply #18.  apparently one of the documents he was exerpting is a hoax. 
on Dec 21, 2004
Your hatred and animosity never cease to amaze me, dabe. I wonder how you can ever see reality through those bitter glasses


My hatred and animosity are directed at the dickheads who are elected into office right now; to the lowlife scum who sound off about their lovefest for those neocon deathmongers we have in the white wash, I mean house, and for some of the blind patriots in this site. Other than that, I'm really quite a loving, intelligent, and open minded person. Ya just have ta get to know me better.
on Dec 21, 2004

Reply #35 By: dabe - 12/21/2004 10:40:01 PM
Your hatred and animosity never cease to amaze me, dabe. I wonder how you can ever see reality through those bitter glasses


My hatred and animosity are directed at the dickheads who are elected into office right now; to the lowlife scum who sound off about their lovefest for those neocon deathmongers we have in the white wash, I mean house, and for some of the blind patriots in this site. Other than that, I'm really quite a loving, intelligent, and open minded person. Ya just have ta get to know me better.


Judging from the out-pouring of venom we hear from you I seriously doubt anyone would want to get to know you better.
on Dec 21, 2004
A dog had followed his owner to school. His owner was a fourth grader at a public elementary school. When the bell rang for the child to go to class, the dog slid inside the building and made it all the way to the child's classroom before a teacher noticed and shooed him outside, closing the door behind him.

The dog sat down, whimpered and stared at the closed doors. Then God appeared beside the dog, patted his head and said, "Don't feel bad little fella' ... they won't let ME in either."
SAD BUT TRUE
on Dec 21, 2004
"Actually, my update asked that people watch the Hannity and Colmes special. Anyone who has ever watched the show knows that both liberal and conservative viewpoints are represented equally. The reason I only posted the transcript of the teacher and lawyer is because that is all I could find on the website. The entire program was an hour long with the teacher/lawyer segment only lasting about 10 minutes. That segment was followed by Michael Newdow and an Atheist Alliance attorney. Be careful with your judgement. Know the facts before you criticize and condemn. "

I watch the show regularly and watched this particular episode. I would agree both liberal and conservative viewpoints were represented on the show but what I am interested in is the truth. The truth in the case involves the teacher, the principal, the students, and the parents. My criticism is only towards the media and to how the media manipulates a story. Certain media factions have taken a story that is about a school district trying to deal with complaints from some parents about a teacher and it tries to paint it as something completely different . Also as far as the Stevens Creek issue, Michael Newdown has absolutly nothing to do with that particular case. They were two seperate segments addressing two different unrelated law suits.

I have read the case filing so I know who the defendants are and what the allegations are. So who is truly judging and condemning? Those like me who say we won't know the truth until it goes to court.....Or those who choose to try the case within the realm of political hack shows?
on Dec 22, 2004

So who is truly judging and condemning? Those like me who say we won't know the truth until it goes to court.....Or those who choose to try the case within the realm of political hack shows?


gotsa hit you with an insightful for that. 

on Dec 22, 2004

SAD BUT TRUE


the way i heard that story, after the dog got booted outta the school, he was layin down and lickin himself.  god said wish i could do that.   the teacher said  maybe if you buy him a hamburger hell let ya.

on Dec 22, 2004

Reply #40 By: kingbee - 12/22/2004 1:34:41 AM
SAD BUT TRUE




the way i heard that story, after the dog got booted outta the school, he was layin down and lickin himself. god said wish i could do that. the teacher said maybe if you buy him a hamburger hell let ya.


this was uncalled for. Have a troll cookie.
on Dec 22, 2004
kingbee , go to hell.
on Dec 22, 2004

Have a troll cookie


you mean a trolllhouse cookier dont you?  no such thing as a troll cookie but....


kingbee , go to hell.


mighty christian of you.

on Dec 22, 2004

How long until they start banning Christian teachers altogether? After all, I have seen teachers in church and even if I didn't see them in church, might see them in the parking lot and know they are Christian. And that would be an implicit endorsement on their part of Christianity.


The above scenario, sadly, isn't much of a stretch in light of current litigation. I thank you, heather, for posting the transcript for us, and personally hope for the day when reason is restored in this country.

on Dec 22, 2004
How long until they start banning Christian teachers altogether?


you musta missed the replies that provide pretty solid evidence that nothing's been banned except a flawed lesson plan that seems to have been created as part of this teacher's personal agenda.  christian teachers who violate school policies are no more or less culpable than non-christian teachers who are equally insubordinate. 
on Dec 22, 2004

King,


While I respect and appreciate everything you have written, I do ask that you, as a liberal, not get blinded to the actions of SOME of your fellow liberals (probably not even most; but they leave a nasty stain on the ones that aren't a part of it).


One recent example was in Plano, Texas, where a student had to go to court to defend his right to hand out religious themed candy canes (the information given is an urban legend, as I posted on another article, but still one that has a lot of meaning to some people). And in the case of a history teacher, to teach anything other than a religious undercurrent that was PART of the reason for our country's founding would be irresponsible (as it would be equally irresponsible to point out that the colonies were pretty much a dumping ground for British miscreants with whom the crown did not wish to deal). I cannot defend the history teacher's curriculum without seeing it, but neither can you defend the school without knowing more information than has been presented in this article or its replies.

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